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[css-align] Two issues with "Values other than stretch" sentence #1431
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Fixed in 7d1efdc ; please let me know if this is now correct. |
I'm mostly OK with it, except now you're referring to So I'm not OK with this resolution. I think it needs a solution that doesn't introduce a dependency on the fiction of block-dimension intrinsic sizes (which aren't actually intrinsic, since they explicitly depend on layout). |
So just to clarify, is your issue solely one of terminology? That is, the functionality described here is fine, you just don't want it referred to as an "intrinsic" size? |
The Working Group just discussed The full IRC log of that discussion<tantek> topic: intrinsic sizing in the block axis<tantek> dbaron: I think this came up in two issues <tantek> dbaron: one issue is 1431 <tantek> github: https://github.com//issues/1431 <astearns> github: https://github.com//issues/1431 <tantek> dbaron: layout regarding intrinsic size ... <tantek> dbaron: I objected ... IDK if I'm the only upset about this <tantek> TabAtkins: IE alread does layout while compute block layout sizes so they get correct values for column wrapped ... <tantek> dbaron: even if it is possible, we should only do it when it is absolutely necessary <tantek> dbaron: if an alignment thing can happen after layout, then we are better off describing it as something that happens after layout <tantek> dbaron: instead of describing computing the intrinsic size <tantek> TabAtkins: there are other things that want this sizing <tantek> TabAtkins: such as sizing a float at all <tantek> TabAtkins: me and Elika already went to / want to express this <tantek> TabAtkins: customlayout already expresses ... <tantek> iank_: no it doesn't <tantek> dbaron: basically, what do you think about describng block direction alignment as computing the intrinsic size in the block size and doing the alignment vs doing the layout and aligning the result <tantek> s/block size/block direction <tantek> Rossen: in our case we align only after a layout <tantek> Rossen: in general the cases of layout are measuring, arranging, and aligning - for us <tantek> Rossen: and aligning only happens naturally after arranging <tantek> Rossen: which is what you are referring to as layout <tantek> Rossen: and measuring is what you refer to as intrinsic sizing <tantek> Rossen: ... <tantek> astearns: do you mind if the spec says you get those block direction measurements for arranging? <tantek> fantasai: we are talking about the sentence about baseline alignment can influence the ... <tantek> Rossen: yes <tantek> fantasai: if you say it doesn't increase the size of the intrinsic box, then the size of the box won't increase <tantek> fantasai: in order to accomodate the content it will overflow <dbaron> I thought we were talking about a totally different sentence. <dbaron> "Values other than stretch or normal cause non-replaced absolutely-positioned boxes to use fit-content sizing for calculating auto sizes in the affected axis." <tantek> Rossen: in this case, what we would do in the cases where we need to stretch, we do the normal pass of computing intrinsic and doing layout <tantek> Rossen: and then do the actual alignment, and then based on the alignment stretch, similar to what you do with table cells <tantek> Rossen: sometimes this means we have to go and do one more pass inside <tantek> Rossen: sometimes when you do the stretch because of alignment, you have to relayout inside such items as well <tantek> Rossen: we are already doing it, pretty much everyone is doing it <tantek> Rossen: I don't think we have a way out of this <tantek> dbaron: I thought we were talking about a different sentence <tantek> dbaron: I thought it was the sentence "Values other than stretch or normal cause non-replaced absolutely-positioned boxes to use fit-content sizing for calculating auto sizes in the affected axis." <tantek> dbaron: it used to describe ..., now it is saying you use fit-content sizing ... <tantek> fantasai: since ... and ... are the same, that's what you get <tantek> dbaron: but you're using fit-content size which is not a function of the other dimension <tantek> dbaron: but if you're doing it for layout, your layout is a function of measurement in the other axis <tantek> fantasai: that sentence is a bit of shorthand <tantek> fantasai: ... I don't particularly see the point <tantek> dbaron: the fit-content size of a block is the result of layout at what width? <tantek> TabAtkins: do you have an answer to that question for min-content instead? <tantek> dbaron: no <tantek> dbaron: intrinsic sizes come before layout <tantek> dbaron: I think you defined it somewhere but I don't remember where the answer was <tantek> dbaron: it doesn't particularly make sense to me so I have trouble remembering it <tantek> fantasai: at what size depends on the rules of alignment in the ... axis <tantek> fantasai: the rules for layout says you ... in the containing block minus the margin, border, padding... then depending ... 100% of that remaining space, or shrink wrapped <tantek> fantasai: ... or block size, and then that becomes the size used <tantek> fantasai: ... and then when you do alignment ... <tantek> fantasai: (couldn't parse that) <tantek> astearns: dbaron do you have alternate wording that you would be satisfied with? <fantasai> Rules for abspos say that you find the inline size using the containing block size, offsets, margins/borders/padding, etc. Take the renainins space, lay out into that. <tantek> dbaron: I think I liked what was in this section before <tantek> dbaron: if you are aligning in the block direction, you do layout, and then you align the result <tantek> astearns: seems reasonable to me <tantek> astearns: fantasai you were using the phrase the content based size <tantek> astearns: rather than intrinsic siz <tantek> fantasai: intrinsic sizes are content based sizes <tantek> fantasai: the size of an image is an intrinsic size <TabAtkins> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/commit/7d1efdc3e96a94a6a426016d8752a2ddcd10af59 <fantasai> To find the content-based (intrinsic) size in the block axis, you need to lay out the content into the inline size to find out how tal it is <tantek> Rossen: intrinsic sizes are well defined in the inline direction, and in the block direction (too soft to hear) <tantek> Rossen: talking about intrinsic sizes in the block direction... <tantek> Rossen: I think what dbaron is suggesting makes sense, which is you layout and then you align <tantek> Rossen: I don't know what it means to align then layout <tantek> TabAtkins: my issue here is that the text before we made the change was effectively identical <tantek> TabAtkins: we didn't change the concept at all, we just made a copy/paste error <tantek> TabAtkins: before we said ..., now we said ..., but that didn't change the meaning of the sentence at all <tantek> dbaron: I think there might have been something else before a prior edit <tantek> astearns: if archeology, then we table this for now, and work on whether there was previous wording that was better or can we improve it now some other way <tantek> Rossen: can we whiteboard it at the break <tantek> fantasai: no argument about behaior, just terminology <tantek> TabAtkins: happy to fix terminology offline <tantek> astearns: any other alignment issues <tantek> dbaron: I don't think so, but the thing we discussed is why I was unhappy with 2 or 3 of them <tantek> astearns: table this for now |
The followup issue requested after the discussion minuted in the previous comment is #2890. |
I think whether I'm OK with the current wording depends on the resolution of #2890. |
I have two issues with this sentence:
In the "Other details" part of the rules for
justify-self
on absolutely-positioned boxes.normal
acting likestretch
is not a value other thanstretch
Both of these issues apply equally to the equivalent sentence:
in the rules for
align-self
on absolutely-positioned boxes.The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: