CSS snapshot 2021

[frivoal]

Do we want the 2021 snapshot to be made early or late in the year? If early, we'd better get going soon.

(Note: for the 2020, we wanted to make it early, but failed, and it came out on December 22)

[fantasai]

Midyear seems like a good target, if it comes out in December I don't mind. :) But we should start tracking what we need to add.

[css-meeting-bot]

The CSS Working Group just discussed CSS Snapshot 2021.

The full IRC log of that discussion

<dael> Topic: CSS Snapshot 2021
<dael> github: https://github.com//issues/6243
<dael> florian: This is not for deep discussion now. Last year we said we'd do snapshot early, failed, and released in December. Wanted to bring attention we should start thinking about it so we can release before Dec. Suggested mid-year would be nice
<dael> florian: Start thinking, filing issue. We'll get back to it soon
<dael> Rossen_: Thank you for not forgetting and drawing our attention to it
<dael> Rossen_: In light of agenda I propose we move forward and everyone is encouraged to add issues or ideas to that issue. I will bring it back once a month and we can check in untill we publish

[astearns]

Does anyone have proposed changes? Should any modules in the stable list from last year get promoted to “official”?

https://drafts.csswg.org/css-2020/#fairly-stable

Or are there modules that should be promoted from or added to the rough interoperability list?

https://drafts.csswg.org/css-2020/#rough-interop

[svgeesus]

The stable definition is:

The following modules have completed design work, and are fairly stable, but have not received much testing and implementation experience yet.

Given that, and looking at CSS Color 4 which has two passes for most tests, has undergone wide review and is being prepared for CR soon, I think it will soon be ready to move from stable to official

[svgeesus]

Also given the level of implementer interest and the pretty good test results then CSS Fonts 4 should be added to the rough interop bucket.

[fantasai]

• Lists 3 might be ready for "rough interop"; other than marker-side it's mostly implemented.
• Counter Styles 3 might be ready for "official definition"?
• Logical Properties 1 should be in "rough interop"
• Unsure about the status of "overscroll-behavior", it's possibly ready for "rough interop"?
• css-position-3 should be in "rough interop"
• Scrollbars 1 should be in "stable with limited implementation"
• css-sizing-3 should probably be in "rough interop" rather than "stable" since it's not CR yet...
• resize-observer maybe goes in "rough interop"?
• web animations 1 could maybe go into "rough interop"?

[frivoal]

(date-adjusted placeholder at https://drafts.csswg.org/css-2021/)

[svgeesus]

Also given the level of implementer interest and the pretty good test results then CSS Fonts 4 should be added to the rough interop bucket.

I see that hasn't happened, but don't see any arguments against it.

[css-meeting-bot]

The CSS Working Group just discussed Snapshot 2021, and agreed to the following:

• RESOLVED: Transforms 2 to "rough interop"
• RESOLVED: other specs as proposed, except for Color 4 and overscroll-behavior
• RESOLVED: Publish Snapshot 2021 as a NOTE after edits

The full IRC log of that discussion

<fantasai> Topic: Snapshot 2021
<fantasai> github: https://github.com//issues/6243
<fantasai> florian: fantasai and I prepared a draft for this year
<fantasai> florian: more or less identical to last year other than dates
<fantasai> florian: Went through list of specs to propose
<fantasai> florian: reminder there's 3 buckets
<fantasai> florian: Stable = things that are REC or almost REC
<fantasai> florian: Rough Interop = roughly interoperable, but spec is in rough shape and lots of issues, but things are shipping
<fantasai> florian: Awaiting Implementations = spec is "done" as far as can be without implementation work, but don't have enough implementation to know if stable yet
<fantasai> florian: We've made a list of some things that might go into the 2021 snapshot
<fantasai> florian: First is, Lists 3 specification
<fantasai> florian: Other than the marker-side property, seems that everything is implemented even though spec is not completely finished, not that far away
<fantasai> florian: so is that one ready for Rough Interop?
<fantasai> florian: Next is Counter Styles 3, seems ready for Stable (Official Definition)
<fantasai> florian: Logical Properties should be in "rough interop"
<fantasai> florian: One we have a question, what is the status of "overscroll-behavior", should it be in "rough interop" or not yet?
<fantasai> florian: Next is css-position-3, seems to be "rough interop"
<fantasai> florian: Scrollbars 1 now CR should be in "Awaiting Implementations" bucket
<fantasai> florian: css-sizing-3 in Rough Interop
<fantasai> florian: Another question: what's status of resize-observer? Should it go into "rough interop"?
<jensimmons> q+
<fantasai> florian: Same question for Web Animations 1
<chris> https://test.csswg.org/harness/results/css-fonts-4_dev/grouped/
<astearns> ack jensimmons
<fantasai> astearns: Also suggestion for css-fonts-4 to "rough interop"
<fantasai> astearns: and css-color-4 to ???
<astearns> s/???/official/
<fantasai> jensimmons: Spec considering in Interop 2022, which is cross-browser effort to focus on testing and interop fixes
<fantasai> jensimmons: overscroll-behavior
<fantasai> florian: Does it mean that after next year it will be in "rough interop"?
<fantasai> jensimmons: No I think now
<fantasai> emilio: ...
<fantasai> emilio: propagation from the body
<fantasai> emilio: basically Blink implements the spec wrong
<fantasai> emilio: in order to make it work on Blink, you have to set it on BODY and for everyone need to set it on root
<chris> https://test.csswg.org/harness/results/css-color-4_dev/grouped/
<fantasai> emilio: *other* than that it's roughly interoperable
<chris> q+
<chris> sigh no audio
<chris> on irc
<chris> are suggestions for color 4 and fonts 4 accepted?
<fantasai> <fantasai> I think color 4 should go to CR first before going official; Fonts 4 to rough interop seems fine
<fantasai> smfr: I would hold off on overscroll-behavior
<fantasai> astearns: OK, overscroll-behavior off the list
<fantasai> astearns: css-sizing-3?
<chris> q+
<fantasai> astearns: should we push it down to rough interop? It's currently in stable but not CR
<astearns> ack chris
<fantasai> chris: Color 4 should be in CR
<fantasai> chris: have shipping implementations, lots of interp
<fantasai> chris: anachronistic to link to Color 3
<chris> \o/
<chris> 7 open issues
<fantasai> florian: Still have open issues, not a lot, but right now at 7
<fantasai> florian: so certainly qualifies under the 2nd bucket, but official definition, maybe not so much
<fantasai> fantasai: I would prefer to wait until next year. Top bucket specs should be in CR or later.
<fantasai> astearns: ???
<fantasai> astearns: Anyone with opinions about resize-observer or web animations?
<chris> ok, agreed re color-4
<fantasai> smfr: Both of those into rough interop
<fantasai> astearns: anyone disagree?
<fantasai> astearns: OK, I think we're at consensus for the list of things in the issue.
<fantasai> astearns: What about Transforms 2?
<florian> s/???/take sizing to rough interop for the same reasons/
<fantasai> astearns: It was suggested to add it to stable last year?
<fantasai> fantasai: It's pretty rough, should go into rough interop.
<fantasai> smfr: sgtm
<fantasai> dbaron: There are many pieces not interoperable and many pieces that are, so sounds good to me
<dbaron> s/many pieces not/some pieces not/
<fantasai> astearns: My suggested resolution is to take all of the suggested edits, including moving transforms 2 to rough interop, except for color 4 and overscroll-behavior
<fantasai> RESOLVED: Transforms 2 to "rough interop"
<chris> +1
<fantasai> RESOLVED: other specs as proposed, except for Color 4 and overscroll-behavior
<fantasai> astearns: Proposed to publish Snapshot 2021 as a Note
<fantasai> RESOLVED: Publish Snapshot 2021 as a NOTE after edits
<fantasai> astearns: How much time until end of year publishing moratorium?
<fantasai> florian: Should be fine, will be done quickly