Cells messing up layout

**David Dorward** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

Kirk wrote:
[color=blue]
> Having spent hours on end sorting out layout issues caused by having
> different amount of cells in different rows[/color]

<snip>
[color=blue]
> Here's the basic code for my table:[/color]

<snip layout table>
[color=blue]
> Anyone know what I can do?[/color]

You could try using the right tool for the job.
Have a read of: http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts

--
David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/

**Barry Pearson** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

Kirk wrote:[color=blue]
> Having spent hours on end sorting out layout issues caused by having
> different amount of cells in different rows, I've finally got a
> webpage looking as it should. However, when I add an image to a cell,
> it messes up a different cell. I have some of the cells set to
> definite sizes but that fails to keep them as they should look.[/color]
[snip][color=blue]
> This works a treat, but when I come to putting an image in 'cell 3' it
> for some reason resizes 'cell 11', which, when they both have
> backgrounds in, messes up the site.
>
> Is there a 'NORESIZE' attribute like for forms, or something similar
> that will force cells to remain at a particular size or something
> along those lines?
>
> Anyone know what I can do?[/color]

Others will comment on the advantages of tableless page formatting. I'm not
qualified to do so, because only my simpler pages don't use tables for
page-formatting.

When I copied your code into Dreamweaver, it had a number of errors in it.
(You don't have proper matching of correct <td ..> and </td> tags). I don't
know if that is part of your problem.

I had problems with images causing disruptions in a table-oriented format. In
my case, the tables were an explicit feature of the presentation of the pages,
so it was important to get the sizing accurate horizontally, and preferably
vertically too. See:

http://www.barry.pearson.name/

http://www.birdsandanimals.info/

I finally gave up trying to get the horizontal spacing accurate via sanitary
means, and used a spacer GIF. (The only one I've ever used). I think with
enough care over CSSs I ought to have been able to do it that way, but
browsers were not on my side. (Especially browsers that didn't use CSSs!)

Have a look at the 2 URLs above and see if they give you any clues.

(I'm currently trying to work out how to achieve the same presentation without
tables. Not because I think it makes sense here - I think tables are perfectly
valid in these cases. But because if I can do it with these I can probably do
it with lots of cases).

--
Barry Pearson

http://www.Barry.Pearson.name/photography/

http://www.BirdsAndAnimals.info/

Child Support Analysis

http://www.ChildSupportAnalysis.co.uk/

This site provides information & analysis of child support & the Child Support Agency in the UK, mainly for lobbyists, politicians, academics & media.

**Davmagic .Com** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

[color=blue]
>From: krkb@hotmail.co m (Kirk)
>Having spent hours on end sorting out
>layout issues caused by having different
>amount of cells in different rows, I've
>finally got a webpage looking as it should.
>However, when I add an image to a cell, it
>messes up a different cell.[/color]

Using a height attribute for cells is meaningless, browsers don't
support it... look here for help on table layouts:

Page Layout Teachwebdesign.com

http://davmagic.com/PAGES47.html

Web Design for beginners!

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**EightNineThree** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

"Kirk" <krkb@hotmail.c om> wrote in message
news:8506dbd5.0 309300507.2c357 794@posting.goo gle.com...[color=blue]
> Having spent hours on end sorting out layout issues caused by having
> different amount of cells in different rows, I've finally got a
> webpage looking as it should. However, when I add an image to a cell,
> it messes up a different cell. I have some of the cells set to
> definite sizes but that fails to keep them as they should look.
>
> Here's the basic code for my table:[/color]
<snip>

404 Not Found

http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/05/05/why_we_wont_help_you

--
Karl Core

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not
cease to be insipid.
Friedrich Nietzsche

eightninethree AT eightninethree. com

**Beauregard T. Shagnasty** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

Davmagic .Com pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:[color=blue]
>
> http://davmagic.com/PAGES47.html[/color]

How about losing all the <center> elements on that page? They make a
garish page even harder to read. Kill the bold text as well.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

**Davmagic .Com** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

[color=blue]
>From: a.nony.nous@exa mple.invalid
>(Beauregard T. Shagnasty)
>Davmagic .Com pounced upon this
>pigeonhole and pronounced:
>http://davmagic.com/PAGES47.html
>How about losing all the <center>
>elements on that page? They make a
>garish page even harder to read. Kill the
>bold text as well.[/color]

Sorry, but the page looks OK and reads OK for everyone else... perhaps
it's the old saying: "uglyness lies in the eye of the beholder" ...
ahem?

Web Design-Magic-Painting-Junking-Games
INFO 2000 For You

ALLusedFurniture.Com Furniture Dave Used Furniture Antiques Detroit Michigan

http://www.davmagic.com

Used & Antique Furniture For Sale In Metro Detroit Michigan No Shipping Available!

See how your webpages look on a MSN-TV Browser:
Download it here: http://developer.msntv.com/Tools/msntvvwr.asp

**Beauregard T. Shagnasty** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

Davmagic .Com pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> >From: a.nony.nous@exa mple.invalid (Beauregard T. Shagnasty)
> >Davmagic .Com pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:
> >http://davmagic.com/PAGES47.html
> >How about losing all the <center> elements on that page? They make a
> >garish page even harder to read. Kill the bold text as well.[/color]
>
> Sorry, but the page looks OK and reads OK for everyone else...[/color]

Define "everyone else."
[color=blue]
> perhaps
> it's the old saying: "uglyness lies in the eye of the beholder" ...
> ahem?[/color]

Certainly true. Should we take a poll?

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

**David Dorward** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

Davmagic .Com wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>>How about losing all the <center>
>>elements on that page? They make a
>>garish page even harder to read. Kill the
>>bold text as well.[/color]
>
> Sorry, but the page looks OK and reads OK for everyone else... perhaps
> it's the old saying: "uglyness lies in the eye of the beholder" ...
> ahem?[/color]

Ugliness may be in the eye of the beholder, but readability isn't (at least
for the most part). Paragraphs of centred text are hard to read.

.... but keep them that way. Hopefully it will drive people towards sites
that teach using the right tool (CSS) for the job (layout).

--
David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/

**Steve Pugh** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

DLSD@webtv.net (Davmagic .Com) wrote:
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>From: a.nony.nous@exa mple.invalid
>>(Beauregard T. Shagnasty)
>>Davmagic .Com pounced upon this
>>pigeonhole and pronounced:
>>http://davmagic.com/PAGES47.html
>>How about losing all the <center>
>>elements on that page? They make a
>>garish page even harder to read. Kill the
>>bold text as well.[/color]
>
>Sorry, but the page looks OK and reads OK for everyone else...[/color]

No they don't. They look ugly and clumsy to me.
Center aligned text for code examples? Yikes.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <steve@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>

**Davmagic .Com** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

[color=blue]
>From: dorward@yahoo.c om
>(David Dorward)
>Ugliness may be in the eye of the
>beholder, but readability isn't (at least for
>the most part). Paragraphs of centred text
>are hard to read.
>... but keep them that way. Hopefully it
>will drive people towards sites that teach
>using the right tool (CSS) for the job
>(layout).[/color]

Book learned web design is for book worms... the real world tells the
truth... today CSS is not supported (not even close) on all the hundreds
of browsers out there... while tables remains steadfast... until this
changes, using a tables layout will better enable browser support...

As for readability, your concept may be supported partially in theory,
but in reality only people who have great difficulty adapting, will find
simple centered text perhaps difficult to read.... just go out and look
at some of the bill boards on the road side for example... they "fly by"
as fast as (or even faster) than webpages, and yet their centered text
seems to get the message across... to you Dave....>

Web Design-Magic-Painting-Junking-Games
INFO 2000 For You

ALLusedFurniture.Com Furniture Dave Used Furniture Antiques Detroit Michigan

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Used & Antique Furniture For Sale In Metro Detroit Michigan No Shipping Available!

See how your webpages look on a MSN-TV Browser:
Download it here: http://developer.msntv.com/Tools/msntvvwr.asp

**David Dorward** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

Davmagic .Com wrote:
[color=blue]
> As for readability, your concept may be supported partially in theory,
> but in reality only people who have great difficulty adapting, will find
> simple centered text perhaps difficult to read.... just go out and look
> at some of the bill boards on the road side for example... they "fly by"
> as fast as (or even faster) than webpages, and yet their centered text
> seems to get the message across...[/color]

There is significant difference between a few words on a bill board, and a
page containing many paragraphs of text.

--
David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/

**Davmagic .Com** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

[color=blue]
>From: steve@pugh.net (Steve Pugh)
>No they don't. They look ugly and clumsy
>to me. Center aligned text for code
>examples? Yikes.[/color]

If you want to see "Ugly" go look at your webpages on a MSNTV Browser...
and Dave Dorward's too... they are typical examples of so called browser
compatable webpages that fail miserably in the current Real World of
browsers!

Web Design-Magic-Painting-Junking-Games
INFO 2000 For You

ALLusedFurniture.Com Furniture Dave Used Furniture Antiques Detroit Michigan

http://www.davmagic.com

Used & Antique Furniture For Sale In Metro Detroit Michigan No Shipping Available!

See how your webpages look on a MSN-TV Browser:
Download it here: http://developer.msntv.com/Tools/msntvvwr.asp

**David Dorward** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

Davmagic .Com wrote:
[color=blue]
> If you want to see "Ugly" go look at your webpages on a MSNTV Browser...[/color]

So on the one hand we have "Ugly by design" and on the other we have "Ugly
because MSNTV Browser doesn't work properly". Fixing one is the
responsibility of the author, the other is the responsibility of the
software publisher.

(And I have no intention on compromising on efficiency and quality for the
sake of a statistically insignificant user agent)

--
David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/

**Beauregard T. Shagnasty** · Jul 20 '05, 04:05 PM

Re: Cells messing up layout

Davmagic .Com pounced upon this pigeonhole and pronounced:[color=blue]
>[color=green]
> >From: steve@pugh.net (Steve Pugh)
> >No they don't. They look ugly and clumsy
> >to me. Center aligned text for code
> >examples? Yikes.[/color]
>
> If you want to see "Ugly" go look at your webpages on a MSNTV Browser...
> and Dave Dorward's too... they are typical examples of so called browser
> compatable webpages that fail miserably in the current Real World of
> browsers![/color]

MSNTV is the current Real World? <rof,l>

I *do* know one MSNTV subscriber.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

Cells messing up layout

Cells messing up layout

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