[css-backgrounds-4] Split CSS Backgrounds into separate specs?

[SebastianZ]

The CSS Backgrounds and Borders Module Level 3 is already pretty heavyweight. Level 4 adds even many more features which evolve at different speeds.

Therefore, I suggest to split the specification up into two separate ones. The first one - CSS Backgrounds Module Level 4 - focuses on only background-related features. The second one - CSS Borders Module Level 4 - covers everything related to border styling including box shadows.

While backgrounds and borders are related and interact to some extent, they still cover individual concepts.
So the two specs could focus on one main feature.

The hope behind this idea is also to let them advance more quickly.

Sebastian

[SebastianZ]

@fantasai @LeaVerou @bert-github What do you think?

[LeaVerou]

From a quick look, it appears that Borders would basically contain everything, except the Backgrounds section. Not sure that would help too much?

[SebastianZ]

The features list for Borders is currently longer than the one for Backgrounds, though Backgrounds would still contain a bunch of additions. Here's a list to make it more obvious:

Backgrounds:

• Physical and logical background-position-* longhands
• Optional offset(s) in background-position-* properties
• Logical keywords for background-position-* properties
• border and text keywords for background-clip
• extend keyword for background-repeat

Borders:

• corner-shape
• Multiple colors per border (via stripes() function)
• Physical and logical border-*-radius shorthands
• Logical border-* properties (maybe; currently they're defined in CSS Logical Properties 1)
• border-limit
• border-clip
• box-shadow-* longhands
• Split-up values for horizontal and vertical box-shadow spread radius

Sebastian

[SebastianZ]

I think this might be a quick decision. So let's discuss this on a call.

Sebastian

[LeaVerou]

I’m generally supportive of more modularization and this sounds like a good one (little interdependency between features).
Yes, this means I disagree with myself from Sep 9 😛

[SebastianZ]

Because there is already support from @LeaVerou, I assume this could also be resolved asynchronously.

As mentioned earlier, the suggested resolution is:
Split CSS Backgrounds and Borders 4 into two separate specs, one for backgrounds and one for borders and box shadows. The current editors will be added to the new spec. as well.

Sebastian

[fantasai]

Another option would be to split out into https://www.w3.org/TR/css-box-4/
In that case I might suggest keeping border-image and box-shadow with the rest...

[astearns]

Is there a current advancement opportunity for Backgrounds or Borders that this split would enable? I’m happy to take on the work if it’s immediately useful, but am less interested if it’s just a theoretical way to move through the spec stages faster

@SebastianZ are you volunteering to do the work?

[SebastianZ]

@SebastianZ are you volunteering to do the work?

Yes, if we decide to split them, it's my plan to make that change.

Is there a current advancement opportunity for Backgrounds or Borders that this split would enable?

It is one big goal for me this year to push the features related to backgrounds and borders. So we can finally get rid of the big "Not Ready For Implementation" banner and at least publish them as a WD.

There is currently some momentum related to some features of the spec. and I believe that a split could help making progress on them, make it easier to maintain them. And two smaller specs are also easier to read than a monolytic one, especially with that many features planned.
At least from the discussions lately, there's definitely some implementer interest and I hope this grows stronger once there's no repelling banner anymore. And that banner can be dropped individually when there are two specs.

Sebastian

[SebastianZ]

@fantasai It makes sense to split the things related to the box model (i.e. border-*-width) out into CSS Box Model 4. (And I saw, you already mentioned that in the abstract of that spec. 😃)

So, yeah, that could be considered when splitting the specs.

Sebastian

[LeaVerou]

If Backgrounds & Borders becomes just "Backgrounds" though, box-shadow and friends doesn't fit in it any more, but not sure it fits in css-box either… Maybe we need a box-decoration spec…